Think I have to agree with you there BobMac,
On our many drives around Phuket and the mainland and going to little out of the way places, it amazed me that these little rundown shacks had satellite tv and nice big four wheel drives etc.

Then you see all the notes on windows of shops with positions vacant etc, seems like no one wants the jobs as they can earn far more doing other things.
Cathy

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thanks heaps for the ponters.. not really there for the sex shows.. i went to a ladyboy show in bali it was good but bf hated it because they picked on him. i should post the photos!. i think byoung singles would enjoy the whole topless bar scene, but if i wanted that i'd pay for a place with half decent women to ogle over lol.
i'll have a hunt around, but i wont get myself into trouble :)

Good for you chkyjo. Do what you feel comfortable with and have a great 21st!

In reply to Bobmac... Yes, that is an oft churned out argument regarding prostitution and there is some truth in it. Poor families from Isaan do indeed send their pretty young daughters and sons to Bangkok to “catch” rich farangs who will set the whole family up for life.

However I wasn’t talking about prostitution per se …I was talking about the pingpong shows. Culturally speaking, I can’t think of anything more mortifyingly degrading for a Thai woman than having to expose herself in public and perform these acts in front of foreign tourists. It’s far more degrading than being an “ordinary” prostitute who earns a lot of money because she’s beautiful enough for men to be willing to pay her for sex. Unfortunately, as far as pingpong shows are concerned, it’s the slimeballs who run the shows who rake in almost all the money, not the performers.

Maybe their children don't know what their mothers do or don't find out until they grow up. Like many Thai children, they are no doubt brought up by their grandparents. I wonder if even the women's parents realize exactly what their daughters have do to bring in the money.

Yes, these women must have lost their self-respect and dignity long ago. Does that make it OK to go and see one of those shows because it's a "must see" when visiting Bangkok?

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“Not all those who wander are lost.” Tolkien.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

I think peoples morals lay on different levels! Jo ask about the ping pong shows and I told her to go to patpong,I havnt seen one since 1991 but both myself or Jo could just quite as easily see one in any major city in Australia as you can in a lot of the world not just Thailand,it just seems a lot more tolerated in Thailand and a bit more in your face so perhaps much easier to accept seeing one there?

I am sure that most women in the sex indusrty would have a problem letting their children know what they do or did for a living and their husbands possibley hate it too! But Thai's seem more tolerant of it so maybe a bit more accepting?

I dissagree with sex tourism/industry(I have friends who live in Pattaya) and have never visited Thailand without my female partner of 27 years but it is there for all to see up close and in your face in most tourist areas so we cant get too moralistic about it when we are there.

Den

Perhaps you could show us exactly where she asked about ping pong shows before you suggested she go and watch one.

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“Not all those who wander are lost.” Tolkien.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

I have no doubts that the families and husbands of these girls know what they do and couldn't give a hoot. The attitude is "great, keep it up, keep that dosh coming in". No attempts are made to conceal the truth, in fact they sit around and laugh about it, kids overhear and they couldn't care less either, as long as the dosh is coming in.
Hard for most of us to understand I know but I'm afraid that's the way it is. Lost self-respect/dignity, moral degradation, these things don't come into it at all. But don't take my word, next time you're at a show ask the ping-pong lady to join you for a drink and try discussing her lost self-respect and dignity or her Thai husband's possible hatred of her occupation. She won't have a clue what you're on about.

"is the ping pong show really seedy? or will we ( my bf, his brother and i) get a good kick out of it." Quote by Jo on her third post in this thread!

I am quite upset to think that you believe I would suggest a sex show to a 21 year old woman going to BKK for the first time!

She asked about pingpong shows in the first instant and I did not suggest one only that she could see one at patpong road!

I joined this forum to gain some knowlage from other travelers about parts of Thailand that I had not visited and in my wisdom told Jo because she was with two males one being her boyfriend not to visit some of the sleeze in the Sukamvit area,I feel i have the Knowlage to tell her this as more than a few of my close friends traveled to Thailand as couples only to come home seperated because of the conduct of their male partners with bar girls!

Can I blame the guy,s for their conduct? I dont know really because they are still friends of ours and some still live in Pattaya! And after all when semi naked women proposition some men with no thoughts going to the female partner they are with then some of the blame must lay with the bar girls?

I would care not if the whole sex industry dissapeared in Thailand but am afraid that will never happen in my life time so feel there is no point *****ing about it,just avoid it if you dont like it.

Den

Really. Well as Chckyjo only asked how seedy the pingpong shows were after you said "do visit Patpong as its great for both sexes" she obviously thought you were suggesting just that. Fishytacko, give it a rest, you're obviously a troll.

Anyway, back to Bobmac who's obviously not one.

Probably not, even if her English was good enough to understand she’d probably find such a question so incredibly rude she wouldn’t have a clue how to answer.

Think about it. You’ve just watched her do a pingpong show. The polite thing to do would be to help her save some "face" by appearing suitably awestruck by her performance. Instead you seem hell bent on embarrassing her further with questions about how degraded and humiliated she feels? And why on earth would she be inclined to discuss her deep personal feelings with a total stranger anyway, especially while she’s at work?

BobMac I respect your input on this forum, you are obviously quite knowledgeable about Thailand. But how do you, as a farang (presumably), know what is said in the families of ping pong ladies? Do they let you sit in on these little family gatherings where everyone laughs and jokes about what they do?

I've got acquaintances fluent in Thai who say they've overheard Thais laughing and joking about how easy it is for their girl (or boy) to extract money from the stupid farang who’s in love with them. That isn’t the same thing at all as Thais laughing and joking about what a female member of their family does in pingpong shows.

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“Not all those who wander are lost.” Tolkien.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

Fio you wouldn't believe the things I've heard discussed by groups of Thais sitting around drinking in their homes, in bars, in card games, here in Thailand and even among groups of Thais who have settled in Australia. The gals who are in the industry or have been in the industry feel no degradation or humiliation, they boast of the number of guys they have serviced and the weird acts they can perform. I've heard it countless times. As I said hard for some to believe. And no I’ve never been hell bent on humiliating a ping-pong lady with personal questions - That was purely given as a hypothetical example.
But Fio, there are many different points of view around. I can't understand why you get aggressive whenever somebody has a viewpoint that differs from your own, and you seem hell bent on tearing him or her to pieces.

Yes I would, I spend a lot of time here too and have worked in Issan. Girls scheming with their families about the best way to rip off farangs is one thing, but I just can't believe any Thai would be proud that their sister/daughter/mother/wife shoots darts and frogs out of her pussy in public in Patpong for a living. And I can't believe this is a career option the girl would have chosen willingly. Being pretty, sexy and clever enough to hook a rich farang husband or boyfriend is different. I may be wrong but I doubt if many farangs would consider marrying a ping pong lady.

If I disagree with something someone says then I try and give cogent reasons why I disagree. Sorry if this seems aggressive to you!

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“Not all those who wander are lost.” Tolkien.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.